8th of June 2024

Interesting ingredients for market differentiation in nutraceuticals with David Foreman

Episode #3 of our podcast with a special guest David Foreman, founder of Herbal Pharmacist.

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We discussed interesting nutraceutical ingredients that can provide brands with much-needed market differentiation with David Foreman, Founder of The Herbal Pharmacist, who has almost 30 years of industry experience.

Highlights:

00:00 Introduction
01:26 Under-the-radar ingredients: Sorgum – applications, delivery formats, and taste
06:55 Recognized, added-value ingredients, new technologies
10:42 Advantages of branded technologies behind the ingredients in the consumer market
14:03 Educating the consumers
15:12 B2C marketing for branded ingredients

our guest: David Foreman.

David Foreman, founder of The Herbal Pharmacist, has nearly 30 years of experience in the nutraceutical industry. A former pharmacist, he shifted focus to natural health, advocating for integrative medicine through education, media appearances, and his “4 Pillars of Health” approach: diet, exercise, mental health, and supplements.

transcript.

Matevž Ambrožič
Hello ladies and gentlemen, listeners of our podcast. Welcome to another edition. Today I’m very happy to be welcoming our guest, Mr. David Foreman, The Herbal Pharmacist.

David Foreman
Thank you, I’m honored to be here. This is going to be exciting.

Matevž Ambrožič
Absolutely, I’m very happy you took the time. I’m sure your years of experience will be of some help here. David has actually incidentally worked on the radio for a long time but then also of course as a pharmacist and now in the nutraceutical industry for quite some time. Is that correct?

David Foreman
Yes, almost 30 years now in the natural health field. Initially helping educate the consumer on the products that they maybe needed for whatever health challenge, and the last probably seven or eight years it’s been more on the ingredients side. The ingredients that go into the finished products, that people sell to the end consumer, and educating the companies making the finished product, helping educate them on maybe applications or reach or how to market the product better, etc. How to communicate that message to the consumer.

Matevž Ambrožič
Great, and I hope you can help our listeners as well with education on interesting ingredients. David has actually been speaking at many Vitafoods events, this event as well, and he took some time to be here at this little podcast room at Vitafoods Geneva. The last edition in Geneva. But David, today I’d like to talk to you about interesting ingredients that are a bit perhaps under the radar, that have not been talked about yet that much, because our listeners or many of them are formulators, product owners, brand owners and they often look for some differentiation, something that has potential, that hasn’t been used as much yet. What’s on your mind in that regard?

David Foreman
Yeah, it’s actually getting harder and harder to find those under the radar ingredients, because there’s only little parts of the world that probably haven’t been investigated. The whole medicine man, medicine hunter type of concept. Recently I ran across an ingredient, that was stumbled on by some farmers. There’s a plant used for grain globally, it’s called Sorgum and these people notice that normally the leaves are green and then eventually turn yellow when the plant starts to die. Well in this case, they noticed that there were these vibrant red streaks through the leaves, so they did an analysis on these red streaks and found that they were super high in very powerful polyphenols or these antioxidant compounds, one of which is so rare I think there’s only one other plant on the planet that is known to have this powerful phytochemical. So this is really cool, but we’d like to see more of red leaf than the green leaf so through hybridization, not genetic modification, they ended up coming up with this red leaf and now it’s gone into clinical trial. So this is truly like there is no other plant like this on the market. These guys were smart, they were attached to a university, so they ended up patenting the seeds. So the seed itself. So they are very strict, they now have farmers currently in the US, but they’re working on a new hybridization so that the plant will grow in other regions of the world. But the fascinating thing is that here’s something that is very new, very cutting edge, and it’s so new and cutting edge that it’s hard for them to really dial in like what is it specifically good for. Because we all know that antioxidants, polyephenols are good for so many different things. So what, where do you want to focus?

Matevž Ambrožič
Do you know if they’re starting to consider doing clinical studies on the phytochemicals, on the extract?

David Foreman
Yeah, it’s interesting because I’ve been helping them for free, I’m so excited about something new and exciting, and me using my pharmacy background, kind of using my science brain on this one, and for me, they were able to tell me what the phytochemical profile looked like. So then I did research on what are those chemical compounds, as chemicals do in the body, and that, and I use that information to see where the best area of focus should be for research. So I can’t, because I have an NDA with these guys, I can’t get overly specific but I can say that it’s phenomenal, it should be phenomenal for sports recovery. I have a lot of people that go to conventions and they drink too much and they found it’s very good for these people. Cognition. I was actually trying to get them to do research in skin health, because I think if you look at a lot of the ingredients that we use in finished products that are those vibrant red colors, they’re usually really good for skin health and that category of beauty from within is so popular. I also feel like, and this no one I think uses as a term, I think it would be also good as a cosmeceutical, so I call it beauty from without.

Matevž Ambrožič
Okay, topical.

David Foreman
Yeah, yeah, it’s a topical. Okay, granted, this research hasn’t been shown specifically on and it’s called, they call it red leaf, so if you’re wondering, it’s not Sorgum, that is the plant, but the patented seed which the leaf is produced from is called red leaf.

Matevž Ambrožič
And this is already commercially available?

David Foreman
Yeah it’s commercially available, comes in different particle sizes. I actually prefer it, they put it in little stick packs and it tastes … it has a very mild flavor, so I will actually mix it in cold water. I like tea, so for me I’ll make hot water and put the stick pack of the powder in it. It doesn’t dissolve, it’s not completely soluble, but it disperses, that’s the word I was looking for. So, yeah, phenomenal possibilities for application as well and for the formulators, typically the concern with botanicals is bitterness.

Matevž Ambrožič
What’s the profile like there?

David Foreman
It’s so mild, like literally I could put a stick pack in my mouth, I wouldn’t okay but as a tea without anything else or in cold water, there’s really a very mild, we’ll call it herbal, but there’s really not a lot of need to mask the flavor. Based on my experience with it you could probably use whatever flavor profile you wanted to create whatever product you wanted. To do a gummy, I think it would work, I don’t think there’s any limitations on what delivery format you want to use.

Matevž Ambrožič
Okay, great so that was Sorgum. And for example, this was something completely new, off the radar, really really innovative, and there might be a segment of our listeners who is a bit reluctant to go into something as first movers but they would prefer something for their consumers that is more recognized but has an added value somehow. What do you see is the development that the industry is offering for this type of company right now?

David Foreman
So this is the area that I am most excited about in the industry. Matter of fact, I spent a little over two weeks in India this year because I know the technology that’s coming from, I mean it’s not just in India, there’s other parts of the world, but the technology I felt like was coming from there. So those people that are working with botanicals like you just mentioned, that maybe have a really bitter taste or they’re not dispersible in cold water or whatever the resistance may be now … or maybe it’s a fat, so fats don’t go into water right. Well now there’s technology out there to make a fat water. Sounds so crazy, but you can literally make it soluble in water. So for me, those people that are tired of using omega3 in a gel cap, because and especially if it’s a fish oil you have to worry about the stability, etc., some of these technologies will take a fat, make it so you can make a stick pack out of it or put it into a food bar and the technology will protect it from oxidation. It’ll also usually help you be able to formulate. It’s so cliche to say outside the box, but this case you’re able to formulate something outside the box. So technology. One of my favorite ingredients is turmeric, curcumin. And there’s a technology that Gencor uses for their turmeric. Their ingredient’s called Hydrocurc, but they use LipiSperse, and so LipiSperse takes something that if you took normal curcumin or turmeric powder and put it in water it would just lay on top and maybe eventually a clump might fall to the bottom. So it makes it really hard to formulate with, I mean you’re pretty much limited to tablets and capsules. This technology allows people to one be able to formulate pretty much across any platform, an effervescent ready to drink, etc. But it also adds something that we also look for – is increased bioavailability and so with bioavailability, and they’ve done the studies and a lot of other companies with other technologies as well, so I don’t mean to be selling one thing here, so to speak, but you’re able to use less number of milligrams to achieve that. So in this case instead of taking 3.000 milligrams of curcumin, you might be able to get away with 500 milligrams. So as a formulator, a finished product person, I’m going to be able to make something maybe sexier than a tablet or capsule. Make a stick pack or a gummy or whatever, where the volume … you might be limited to the amount of volume you can use, you’re now able to do that and still have a therapeutic dose. And the companies that use technology and then do the follow-up studies on bioavailability, “Oh, wow, we used to have to use 3.000 milligrams or six capsules, now I can take one”, you now increased your customers’ compliance with taking the product, because if I have to take something six capsules … there’s days I don’t want to take that many capsules. These technologies really give the company that’s producing the product a lot of advantages over somebody that’s just selling the XYZ ingredient.

Matevž Ambrožič
I can imagine. And do you think this is something, a technology behind the ingredient is and a branded one perhaps like LipiSperse, is this something that can help a finished product brand have an advantage in the consumer market as well? Do consumers go as far as investigate or read up on the actual technology enabling the higher bioavailability or do you think for them it’s circumin and that’s it maybe the amount of it and that’s it? What do you think, is that an advantage? In the case of higher bioavailability ingredients, you actually have a lesser amount right, some brand owners might have the concern of “Okay, my product will be perceived as providing less value.” You think consumers in different markets are already at the stage where they can see this is an advantage, see the brand or the technology or the ingredient and this helps with the purchasing decision?

David Foreman
So I see both sides of this. The reality is though, a finished brand product that’s using a branded ingredient, there might be a little bit more education required to educate the consumers. I’m telling you now, 95% of the public doesn’t know what bioavailability is. We in the industry know and I come from modern medicine, with drugs bioavailability is the one thing and so the average consumer probably doesn’t understand that but there’s other ways to convey that message. “Hey, because of technology, you can now take less and still achieve the same result.” The other thing is the branded ingredients to me add such extra value as opposed to the generic. So if we wanted to say ashwagandha, I mean I could buy ground up ashwagandha, but it could be part of my language, it could be crap, it could be the wrong part of the plants, it could be extracted wrong. But when you buy a branded ingredient, you’re buying a brand that has proven time after time after time, that the process in which they farm it, harvest it, extract it, and to the to the finished ingredient, then they do the clinical study on that specific extract, that’s done the same way every time. You now have the ability to make a very strong claim. If I’m taking XYZ ingredient, pick one, whatever it is, and there’s clinical studies saying that “Hey, if I take this brand that’s been done this specific way, that’s maybe even patented, and it might cost a few pennies more per dose, but the fact that if there’s a study that says if you take 300 milligrams of this once a day that in seven days the pain should be gone in your knees,” that’s value, that’s something. Because there’s a lot of, like the joint health is a great area for that, boswellia is another ingredient where technology has taken things … where we were taking 500 milligrams of boswellia for joint pain and now there’s companies that are selling like … you could take 50 to 100 milligrams to achieve the same result, and that’s the technology advantage. But like you said, the average customer was so used to taking 500, like “Oh, you’re cheating me, you’re only giving me 50,” … Well there’s a reason why and that’s the only part I think that your brand companies just need to learn. This is bigger, better, stronger. I think it boils down to really boiling down again the message from scientific difficult to the effect that the consumer feels in the end.

Matevž Ambrožič
I think a good example is Unilever in their hydration products where they have this … they call it CTT, cellular transport technology, mechanisms of sodium, glucose co-transport, and so forth, they boil it down to “Feel better faster.” That’s it so simple, messages that can really resonate with the consumer in the end and a brand. Maybe that’s all it takes.

David Foreman
Well it’s funny and that’s kind of what I do now in the industry is I try to help companies that have those branded ingredients translate to the brand that’s going to sell the product, try to help them figure out how do you market this. Because like we said earlier, bioavailability, what does that really mean? Or you were talking about cellular transport, that sounds like I’m going to outer space or something like that. So that’s the key thing, is just for the companies to have a solid R&D, having the science and the marketing and the sales work together to figure out how to really present that messaging.

Matevž Ambrožič
Great, okay. Also what I wanted to, a thought that popped into my mind, as you were discussing using branded ingredients and how this reflects on consumers, I find it quite fascinating that more and more branded ingredients, not many, but still, are even doing B2C marketing to increase their recognition and actually help the finished product brand sell. I saw the news that Balchem started sponsoring an NFL team, which I thought was gigantic sponsorship investment.

David Foreman
Yes, fascinating.

Matevž Ambrožič
But really working towards branded ingredients on the finished product being a selling tool.

David Foreman
It’s interesting to me, because when I started doing what I’m doing now, before that I was only end consumer, and so I tried to tell people you could have the greatest ingredient and bang your chest like a gorilla in the forest, but unless the consumer understands you’re gonna have to spend some money. So I try to get the companies I work with and even companies I don’t that I’m just trying to help out to understand, you need to co-brand. So you’re making sure that your trademark gets used and then even help them with a marketing budget, like you just said like branding outside of the B to be help your B be able to message to the C. I’m seeing more of that, I wish I saw more of it, but the really progressive companies are the ones that are really doing that and a lot of these raw material companies, the ingredient suppliers, are actually willing. They don’t tell you, you have to ask, so that’s the other thing, if you have a brand, you’re listening to the show right now, and you’re like “Wow I’m using all these branded ingredients,” you should go back to those people and say “Hey, can you help us co-market, co-brand?” And sometimes they’ll be “Well, all right, we’ll put our trademark on the front of the package.” And then they’ll do it. I actually have a very good example a company in the US with a very large brand, a food drug and mass brand, they took their logo off the front of the package. And so they stopped giving them the money to help advertise and the way they got their logo back on the front was they said “You need to put the logo back on the front and then we’ll start giving you money again to help advertise”. It’s a has to be a win-win situation.

Matevž Ambrožič
I think that’s a good thought to wrap up with. Perfect, has to be a win-win situation, good motto. I’d like to thank Mr. David Forman, The Herbal Pharmacist for joining us. I hope to see you around at many other speeches, talks, round tables, as you are very active and very well-known in the industry, and we’re very happy to have had you here.

David Foreman
Thank you for having me, it’s an honor.

Matevž Ambrožič
Great, thank you listeners, and we’ll see you at the next episode.

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