Matevž Ambrožič
Hello ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another edition of our podcast. My name is Matevž and I’m the Marketing Director at PharmaLinea, and I’m very excited to be joined here today by Mr. Taeyoon Kim, who is the CEO and founder of TopHealth.
Taeyoon Kim
Thank you and nice meeting you also here. And as he mentioned, I am the founder and CEO of TopHealth in Korea.
Matevž Ambrožič
Just a little bit of background behind TopHealth. So, Mr. Kim is a brand owner and TopHealth is a consumer-facing brand, so they sell food supplement products to consumers in South Korea and I was really interested in making a podcast with you and having you as a guest because you have some very innovative approaches to consumer marketing, which I think many of the brand owners in our audience could really learn from. So, from the beginning, from the founding of TopHealth, if I’m not mistaken, correct me if I’m wrong, Mr. Kim has chosen to go with a strategy of direct-to-consumer marketing, specifically on the online channel, and he’s doing or the whole team of TopHealth is doing remarkable things with marketing on Social Network Services – Facebook, Instagram, Tik Tok, and so forth. And he’s doing that not with cheap me-too products, not with commodities, not with the worst form of marketing, but selling added-value, selling high-quality products, selling clinically studied products, and communicating directly to consumers on a channel where typically companies that work with clinically supported products are not present. So, Mr. Kim I would like to first maybe ask you about how you chose this path, how you chose the online channel, and this type of marketing, to begin with?
Taeyoon Kim
Before I established my own company I used to work for my father, who is also the founder of the first generation of a supplement business that sells products to doctors, medical doctors only, and I have been working for him for maybe 7 years or 8 years from the very beginning of 2000. We did exit the company, but my father didn’t want to sell it out because this was his baby right, but I thought that this is very good, because there are no competitors outside of my company, because nobody can copy, because we already did it, all the setup, so it was great company. But I felt like the like customers are getting smarter and smarter, which means like back in … let’s say at the beginning of 2000, actually many customers didn’t really believe the information existing via internet or Google search. This means they go to doctors, if the doctor says this is good for let’s say your bone health, then they believe it, they buy vitamin D let’s say, but time went by and I realized this is becoming more casual and casual in a way that customers go to the internet, then they search it and they do the comparison with the doctor’s product and let’s say Amazon’s product and they choose it. So I was thinking, after exiting our previous company then, what should I do? Maybe I have to do the same as I used to do, or I have to find a new way, but I couldn’t go with the let’s say automobile industry or chocolate industry, because I have been doing this supplement business for a while. So I thought okay, let’s go with the same products, but a different channel or/and a different approach. So that’s the reason why I chose this channel, but I didn’t … I mean, it’s not only for online channels but also for offline channels. But the differences between TopHealth and the previous company is that we used to use the doctors but we now use the offline channel as the biggest wholesale market, such as Costco. So that’s the reason why I chose and I started this business.
Matevž Ambrožič
So you started your own company, you went with the casual market as you call it, so away from doctor promotion, directly to doctors, so medical detailing, right? Away from … so more to sales in online and sales also in retail, correct? There’s both. And then the promotion, I’m interested in the promotion. How exactly, which kind of channel do you choose to promote and what kind of activities directly? Is it, as I understand it’s online, is it Google search ads, is it digital native ads popping up on websites, is it webinars with groups on Facebook or stuff like that? What exactly kind of promotions do you use and you know which one I want to get to in more detail in the end.
Taeyoon Kim
Okay, as you mentioned, Google ads, search ads, whatever everybody does, we do. I mean, essentially we have to. But I focus more on something like a specialized advertisement, which I utilize or work with, cooperate with this expert group. But also, they are all experts and influencers. This means they are influencers, but they have their license like doctors and pharmacists and maybe some people want to copy their lifestyle. But the point is, if you use a celebrity, which means like actor, actress, or comedian, or sports star as an SNS channel to promote products, it is good for the short term but the customer doesn’t feel we are getting close to them. Because they have a different lifestyle. But this kind of celebrity, not like this ATL celebrity, then we feel like we could see him or her, and their life … it means if I go to a department store, I could see him, see her, it means that the customers are feeling more close to them and they could communicate easier, it means they think, the customer feels this kind of influencers, maybe we could be friends with later. So what I want to do is, of course, if I have tons of money for marketing to use or utilize, collaborate with these actresses or actors, of course, I will, but if you ask me, you have to choose. With the same money, I have to spend on. Then I will choose definitely. Even these influencer channels to be better.
Matevž Ambrožič
So from the start you started working with influencers, correct?
Taeyoon Kim
Mhm.
Matevž Ambrožič
And these specialists, these experts as you call them, pharmacist influencers, doctor influencers, have they been around from the beginning when you started working with them?
Taeyoon Kim
No, it’s like, back in uh 2017 or 16, I don’t remember which year I started my work, but around that year, there did not even exist this kind of SNS players. They were, but it’s not like a major channel, so I just feel and felt that Instagram is getting bigger and bigger, not as just a channel for selling but as let’s say … people just go to Instagram and see it. I saw a few products that are supplements that sell through Instagram, so I asked my marketing director, could you please list the best influencers, and they gave me a list and I wrote all the DM, direct mail, to this list, but nobody answered me. Because they think, we are too small, and they don’t know who we are, and this channel was not that popular before. So, what I did, is I tried to find out each person, what kind of things are interesting to this guy, this lady, then I approached in a different way than before. I DM with something interesting. For example, Grayson who who started working with us, was interested in fine dining, restaurants, something like that and I saw … it took a lot of time to see all of her feed and I realized that she couldn’t make a reservation for one restaurant, which is the fine dining for steak. But it was accidentally one of my best friend’s father’s restaurants. But even though I’m his friend, he couldn’t make a reservation, because it was already fully booked for a year. So, I went to him, and asked him, this is not for fun, it’s for my business. So, he told me that okay, once he has a cancellation, then he will let me know as a first priority. So, I got it there and I asked her about it, and she started to get interested in us. That’s how it started, but it’s not just networking, if we think really deeply about what they are interested in, then every single body could approach them to make them sell our products or promote our products.
Matevž Ambrožič
And this was Grace, that you were describing? An influencer that is more of a casual influencer, she’s not pharmacist or doctor?
Taeyoon Kim
No, she’s like just one person, who a lot of ladies want to be like. Fancy restaurant, luxurious clothing like Gucci.
Matevž Ambrožič
Mhm, and she was not the expert, right? So, how did you … this was working well for you, I assume?
Taeyoon Kim
Mhm.
Matevž Ambrožič
But then you started working with experts well, how did that happen, how did you find them, how did you start to cooperate with them?
Taeyoon Kim
Yeah, after this SNS place goes well, then we kind of … we’re a small company, but this means that SNS has power. It means that we are small, but people see a lot of our products because this is very casual to scroll up, scroll down. They say Dr. Line comes up so one of the founders of these PharmaBros, I have been working with him … not working with, I was in the sales force and he was a pharmacist back in the old days, and he asked me, I think your products are getting known by experts as well, are you interested in working with us? I’m more than honored to work with them because that’s what I want to do at the end. But it was a bit difficult for me to ask them first, because they’re experts, right, and I … especially Mr. Cole, co-founder of that company, every single company these days wants to approach him, to make their promotion or selling, so I couldn’t approach them first. Because it’s not my type and I don’t really think it works, but fortunately this SNS channel is powerful, so they approached, they asked me.
Matevž Ambrožič
And they were one of the first movers, as I understand correctly, these PharmaBros? Just incidentally for our listeners, PharmaBros is this collective company of pharmacist influencers basically, and they were one of the first movers in doing this selling, I mean moving their communication online and reaching a much wider audience than in the pharmacy alone, correct?
Tayoon Kim
Yes, and not even one of the first movers, actually he is the first mover.
Matevž Ambrožič
He is the first mover? Okay.
Taeyoon Kim
He never chose our products because he is a friend of mine, he’s not my friend of mine. Anyways, even if he has friends, who want to sell through him, there has to be a product itself that has a history or/and technology or/and USPs. If he feels, there is nothing like that, then he doesn’t. Yeah that’s … I just wanted to explain how it is.
Matevž Ambrožič
So, if even the biggest brand in the world approaches him with a product that has no specific USP, no technology, they’ll say no?
Taeyoon Kim
Definitely. I’m not him, but as far as I know about him for a few years, no.
Matevž Ambrožič
Okay, and just to understand the scale of this, as I understand that these pharmacist influencers, they don’t have the largest following in the world.
Taeyoon Kim
Right.
Matevž Ambrožič
You have influencers that have much larger followings, but they have, if I’m not mistaken, very big influence on purchasing decisions of consumers when it comes to high quality supplements, right?
Taeyoon Kim
Yes, correct.
Matevž Ambrožič
So what’s the scale of their following? How big is their following?
Taeyoon Kim
It’s a 100.000 followers.
Matevž Ambrožič
100.000?
Taeyoon Kim
It’s still big, but compared to the uh biggest ones … But on YouTube channel Mr. Cole has like two million. Of course the number of followers guarantees more chance to sell, but it doesn’t guarantee that the more followers the more products are actually sold. It’s a matter of like how followers trust them, of how followers think of them as they introduce the quality of products … because it’s not made in one day or two days. Mr Cole has been or they have been doing this like “information, lecture” not selling for many years. Because then that made them as like “oh this guy we could trust him”. So I think it looks very easy to sell, because you know, people think “he takes a picture and takes a video”, but I went on a business trip with them for a few days and I couldn’t do it if you give me a million dollars, 100 billion dollars, because every single where they go they do this, do content. So I think that your question about followers … it is important, but more important is how they have built up their reputation.
Matevž Ambrožič
Right, and this is what they protect by really being selective about their products right? As soon as they intake low-quality products, they ruin their reputation and they lose then the influence, right? Okay, when you start a campaign with them, what does a typical campaign look like? What do they talk about, how many products is it, how long does it last, and maybe some good results that you’ve had with them?
Taeyoon Kim
Okay, what they do first is they explain, which is fact-based or like scientific fact and they don’t mention any products first. They just try to understand why you need, let’s say Magnesium, right? Why you need Magnesium. Because in Korean regulation we just could like as a customer, if we don’t go through the details, then the statement permitted by MFDS, which is Korean FDA, is good for muscle relaxation. But what they do is if they think Magnesium has more functions then they try to explain this to people who have this kind of lifestyle, that you have to intake it and if you feel this feeling then you have to intake the Magnesium. Then a few days later they get lots of comments from customers “What do you suggest” or “What do you prefer” or “Could you please open the selling channel”. We call it group selling. Sometimes if they think this is not good as good for him or her to sell, they just don’t sell. But if they think it’s worth to sell … it’s not about money, it’s about their reputation and the customers. I don’t really know the system of how many days after but usually maybe in one week or two weeks they post our Dr. Line Magnesium. Then you ask me how many units, it was 12K for 3.5 days.
Matevž Ambrožič
12.000 units?
Taeyoon Kim
12.000. But we couldn’t sell more because we were out of stock.
Matevž Ambrožič
So you think it could have been even more if there were stock?
Taeyoon Kim
For sure. We talked just before and … 20K easily.
Matevž Ambrožič
In three to four days?
Taeyoon Kim
In maybe that case in a week.
Matevž Ambrožič
Okay I’m sure everybody’s taking a breath right now at home listening to these numbers and a question that pops into my greedy mind now is how far can you scale this? Can you just say “Okay we have one influencer, let’s go with 10 of these influencers and have 10 times the result”? Does it work that way?
Taeyoon Kim
No, no, no. I mean I’m not an expert, but I mean from that, just saying from my experience we did it before not with the experts but with other influences. But it’s not like 1 plus one equals two because if every single body sells then customers think that it’s not unique and also sellers, like influencers, don’t like it and they don’t really put all their efforts into products. Because it has to be quality-based but at the same time it has to be unique. So, we are trying really to control the number of sellers. Even as you ask me at the break time if we … oh for sure you have to like 10 times 12 times, but from my experience I don’t think that’s good way of working at this channel at least from my experience.
Matevž Ambrožič
So just to clarify, at a single moment in time, you have a campaign with one influencer for one product?
Taeyoon Kim
Yes, one product or a few products if they want to combine it, if it fits their followers, to their knowledge.
Matevž Ambrožič
And what type of product maybe are you promoting now through this channel? Just so our listeners know what is the type of product that they could push through these channels.
Taeyoon Kim
I think it depends on sellers and influencers. If the lady who we want to be, then maybe a collagen or like let’s see vaginal health or vitamin C or Q10 for good skin or something. And if the pharmacist influencers, they fit to let’s say magnesium and iron or something more detailed, deep or narrow. But the funny thing is this …it’s not funny thing, the good thing with working with these expert group influencers is even commodities like let’s say probiotics, vitamin D, multivitamin, or something that like vaginal health or something like what did say … yeah collagen, they sell good. This part who we want to be, we have to really think of it like which kind of products fit to them. But I think the expert of course like each expert has their own strong point to sell each product. But in general, these expert influencers fit to every single product, that’s what my experience.
Matevž Ambrožič
Okay, so that’s also good to know. Do you think that it was very important that you were quick to recognize the potential of this channel and to secure cooperation with these influencers or can new companies be added every day or is it really important to be quick to jump on this type of promotion?
Taeyoon Kim
I don’t really know the other markets, let’s say the Slovenian market, and Danish market, or US market, but from Korean market I mean in general, I think the sooner is the better because customers just remember the first move in general. This, especially for this, I mean of course other players will do it and they are doing a great job, but I think the sooner the more chance we could have. It doesn’t mean that second move could not be good, it doesn’t mean that. But what I want to try to say is the sooner the more response, I mean the chance we could have.
Matevž Ambrožič
Okay, apart from the sooner the better, is there any last piece of advice you would give the brand owners from different markets out there based on what you’ve learned with this type of marketing?
Taeyoon Kim
I mean I don’t know all European countries or North America, other Asian countries, but these days Korean regulation for labor is getting tough. This means that even if my colleagues wanted to work more, the government blocked it. They work and it’s really controlled. Or I work with many colleagues at sales forces, there are many risks in terms of regulation. It means the … but this kind of channels don’t really have to have all of these sales forces. This means it’s more efficient, because you see like10.000 views for one feed. If you hit the 10.000, if you go to person by person, or even if you use the Google targeted advertisement, it costs money, right? But this one is I think faster and more efficient in many ways, so I don’t really remember what more efficient, which kind of things we have more, but I feel in many ways there are lots of things we could take, good things from this channel.
Matevž Ambrožič
All right, very good. Thank you very much Mr. Kim, for being our guest.
Taeyoon Kim
Thank you.
Matevž Ambrožič
Thank you to our audience for tuning in and we’ll see you next time.
